Can Stormy Simon Turn High Times around or Will She Fall of the Glass Cliff?

High times ceo stormy simon interview

Stormy Simon is an attractive woman.

Stormy Simon is very easy to empathize with.

Stormy Simon seems like a genuinely nice person.

I don’t know yet if Stormy Simon is the absolute perfect new CEO to try and turn around the High Times brand and financial situation, or the perfect fall guy (gal) for the upcoming problems the brand will face as they push for an IPO. Is Stormy Sanders being hired to lead a revival or get pushed off the glass cliff when times get tough? Historically, she fits the roll for both descriptions.

What is the glass cliff?

In Vox media’s article here, the glass cliff is described as:

The glass cliff is a relative of the “glass ceiling” — a metaphor for the invisible, societal barrier that keeps women from achieving the highest positions in business, politics, and organizations. The glass cliff is a twist on that: Women are elevated to positions of power when things are going poorly. When they reach the upper ranks of power, they’re put into precarious positions and therefore have a higher likelihood of failure, meaning there’s a greater risk for them to fall…

“When an organization is in crisis, women are often seen as being able to come in and take care of a problem,” Anna Beninger, senior director of research and corporate engagement partner at Catalyst, a nonprofit focused on promoting women in business. “They’re effectively handed the mess to clean up.”

New High Times CEO – Stormy Simon

Stormy Simon was named the new CEO of High Times just a few weeks ago after serving on the High Times Board of Directors for two years. When we set up the interview with Cannabis.net, we agreed at the time to record the video for the sake of being able to make a transcription from the live video, but also agreed not to release the raw video footage of the live interview. Since this was agreed to before the interview, we will not change that agreement at this time. We were contacted very soon after the interview by representatives of High Times confirming that we would not release the video footage and they would need a copy of the video as well.

The questions I had prepared for the interview were as follows:

Will early investors in the Regulation A crowdfunding get a chance at a refund or early redemption since the nature of investment thesis has changed drastically? Investors were sold a project that was a cannabis media and events company with dreams of getting on the NASDAQ stock exchange. With the recent announcement of a High Times’ pivot to owning and/or licensing dispensaries beginning in Las Vegas and Los Angeles the project is now “touching the flower” for all intent purposes. Future licensing or ownership deals are scheduled for Chicago, Aspen, and San Diego. Basically, since the entity will now be touching the flower, dreams of NASDAQ listings are long gone. What if an early investor in the “Reg. A” lives in Texas or Alabama and isn’t comfortable with a “touching the flower” company? Will investors be able to get a refund or redemption period now that we have dramatic change in the details of the investment vehicle? If no refund or redemption is offered, isn’t High Times opening themselves up to endless lawsuits, or a class action lawsuit from investors, let alone SEC investigations if they don’t offer some form of refund or redemption?

A follow up call from High Times clarified this answer as Stormy wasn’t sure of that at the time of the interview. The answer being no. According to Hight Times, if you read all the fine print in the investor sign up area, High Times pretty much has full cart blanche to do as they see fit with the investor money and listing areas. Although, when presented with the above example of Texas or Alabama, High Times said there may be a case-by-case scenario where they could look at refunds or redemptions for people.

The second question I wanted to ask was how High Times planned to handle the massive debt load they have on the books. According to the New York Post, it is over $105 million, High Times is presently challenging this assertion in court and cannot comment on that particular number. Suggested realistic debt levels are in the $30 million to $40 million range, not counting the money owed to early investors and crowdfunded investors. It appears that the latest High Times financial filings shows about $15 million owed to vendors who have already done work for High Times and have not been paid, when and how are they going to get paid? I am not a CFA or financial analyst, that is just my own opinion on reading their latest filings.

The third question I wanted to ask was about the stock price and options given to people in the C-suite compared to what the prices were being charged to the crowdfunding participants. Were executives getting stock or stock options at around $3 or $4 a share while the fans of the company buying through the Reg. A were paying $11? This information will all come out in the wash if there ever is an IPO, but what will the reaction be from all the fans who bought at $11 a share? Would there be lawsuits or SEC investigations?

We didn’t get far enough along in the interview to ask these questions as a simple question about whether High Times plans to start republishing Dope and Culture, two magazines they bought last year, after not having a new issue come out for the past 4 months? Stormy was discussing the magazine at the time and when I threw out that casual question, she seemed surprised and then got defensive. I could care either way if they publish Dope and Culture again, just was wondering if they plan on shutting those brands down. By her reaction it appears she was unaware that those magazines have not been published in a few months.

If Things are So Dire, Why Take the Job?

This was my first question to Stormy, after seeing the turnover rate of management in the past year at High Times, why jump off the sidelines (from serving on the Board) and get your hands dirty? What did you see that made you say, “Yep, I can fix this!”

With all this debt, no real clear path to profitability, and with a stalled-out Reg. A crowdfunding campaign, why would Stormy jump at this opportunity?

In an article published on New Cannabis Ventures here, Alan Brochestein covers the High Time pubic filing around the hiring of Stormy Simon as CEO and new president, Paul Henderson. As Alan writes:

Simon will earn a base salary of $300K per year, though it will be reduced to $215K until the company raises an additional $10 million, with the difference accrued. Her target bonus in 2020 is $225K. She was also granted the right to buy 200 shares at $11.00 and 300K shares as a grant...Henderson’s compensation includes a salary of $300K, an annual targeted bonus of $300K, a grant of 300K shares and an option to acquire 200K shares at $11.00.

So, a cannabis media and events company that is in desperate need of funding and cash, is going to be on the hook for close to $600,000 in cash salary for a year, up to another $550,000 in cash bonuses, and is granting $6,600,000 in shares to a new president and CEO not named Beyoncé, Snoop, Warren Buffett, or Jeff Bezos?

If High Times can find a way to raise $10,000,000 somewhere, Stormy is looking at a cash payout of $525,000 for the year as well as $3,300,000 in stock (if the price is at $11, the price they are selling it to the public).

In an era of cannabis CEOs getting fired and stepping down, when over 1,000 cannabis employees have been laid off over the past year (and more to come with EAZE), why is anyone paying their CEO and president this kind of money, especially a company with a heavy debt load and in desperate need of one thing, cash! This seems the exact and polar opposite of all common sense and industry trends, unless High Times knows something Stormy doesn’t.

Not to mention the private equity or funding side to this set up. If High Times can get an investment group to fork over $10 million in new funding, they are going to tell that investment group that close to 1% of that brand new money is going to the new CEO’s salary, the new CEO who is already making $215,000 and has millions in stock options as well? What investment firm would agree to that when they look at the “use of funds” section in the investment deck or memorandum?

Back to the Glass Cliff

As you can read in the transcript below, Stormy mentioned on numerous occasions she has only been CEO for a few weeks. I agree, this is fact, but if I was the new CEO the first thing I would do is get to know the facts and figures on the finances of High Times. I didn’t feel any of the questions mentioned above were sneaky or asked with malicious intent, but the lack of understanding of High Times’ financials and precarious position they find themselves in now a with the pivot to now “touching the flower”, does Stormy know that situation she was brought in to handle?

Generally, a company pays you a crazy amount of money and stock for a very important job or action that needs to be done. One version on why Stormy and Paul are getting paid so much money and such high stock compensation is to rebuild the brand and rescue the company, the other version is that they are being paid to be good soldiers when the bullets start flying, and take one for the team.

What Would I Do?

It is easy to sit on the other side and take shots at High Times and Stormy, so I wanted to get my ideas out there on what I would do if I was Stormy in this situation. Would I have taken the possible $525,000 cash salary and $3 million in stock to be CEO? You bet, but under a few conditions. I would first hire a corporate lawyer not paid for by High Times, but paid for by me, and who only has my interests to protect. I would then hire a forensic accountant for a contract job to go over the financial balance sheet of High Times and give me a detailed report of the good, the bad, and ugly. I would want to understand my liabilities with the SEC once I started putting my signature on regulatory filings with the US government. If things go south on this deal, the US government may not be as lenient on a CEO that claims they didn’t understand many of the financial numbers, when he or she had been on the board for 2 years before taking over the CEO job.

Can High Times Be Saved?

It is very hard to make money in the online cannabis space without selling cannabis, or participating in the sale of cannabis is some way, like referring orders, etc. Many sites that have done funding rounds have folded up or are on life support like Civilized, MassRoots, EAZE, Life and Co, and more. The giants in the room, Weedmaps and Leafly, have recently laid offer 20% and 18% of their workforce as they try to get costs down in an increasingly competitive digital world.

Until THC can cross a state line and be put in the mail, there is no miracle cure for these sites, once the Federal law changes, then these sites are gold mines of new orders and media partnerships with brands. The High Times name has iconic value, if you are over 40 years old, and I even discuss with Stormy in the interview below how High Times could take their High Times Cup Winners and put those products in their dispensaries as a branding edge over just “some other dispensary”.

Is there value in High Times? Yes. Is there a ton of bad debt also on the balance sheet and the possible complications of a failed Regulation A on the books, you bet. High Times was slow to react to the digital age and internet, and I could make the argument there should be no Weedmaps if High Times did its job well back in the 90s and 2000s. Why are we not all using a High Times map of dispensaries and MMJ doctors as opposed to Weedmaps? High Times had first mover advantage on the internet and iconic value, but they didn’t see digital coming like they should have back 25 years ago.

Conclusion

It was a rough interview for Stormy, but everyone has a bad day. Does Stormy completely understand the financial picture at High Times and risks associated with being the new CEO of High Times, maybe, maybe not, time will tell. Was she named the first female CEO of High Times and given a huge salary and compensation package to turn High Times around, or take the walk off the glass cliff when then things go down the drain? Either way, protect yourself, Stormy.

Cannabis.net sits down with new High Times CEO, Stormy Simon. (Transcribed)

Curt: All right, well Stormy Simon, the new CEO of High Times, you are being recorded with Cannabis.net. Welcome.

Stormy Simon: Thank you.

Curt: So Stormy, tell me a little bit about your background at Overstock.com and the first question I wanted to ask for the viewers and our listeners that don't know is you are on the board of High Times for two years, I believe. You saw the C suite and then you said, I'm going in, I'm going to get my hands dirty, I want to be the CEO. So I kind of, I kind of want to walk through what that was like and what you saw that said, I want this one, I can do it.

Stormy Simon: Yeah, well high times at South getting on the board a couple of years ago they were acquired in 2017 by finally changed hands of ownership for the first time, I believe, and joined the board shortly after that. As a board member it was great to have that seat to view the industry and watch the brand begin to transition into what is now legal markets. When Donald had a couple CEOs in the past few years and at the departure of the last one our executive chairman, Adam Levin is, we've become friends and we talked about it and thought it would be a great time to get my hands dirty as you said. But in a passion moment.

Stormy Simon: I love the High Times brand. I love everything that it represents and has represented for over 45 years. It's a leader, was the sole leader for a very long time, and those of us who have had a relationship with the cannabis plant for many years and decades have known High Times, and that was our source. And that's where we went to learn about a plant we knew nothing about.

Curt: And have you been a lifelong cannabis user the way you're speaking of High Times and its history?

Stormy Simon: Well, not a lifelong, I started at a reasonable age, but I have, I have Ben and by being, so you ever put into a category of subculture or stoner and back in the day that's how it was referred to and you weren't referred to as a South medicator or maybe even a healer to those that were delivering it. And today because of all those reasons back then, High Times was the place. Everyone picked up a High Times magazine if you were curious about cannabis. But it wasn't especially growing up in Utah, it wasn't conversations that were being held openly and definitely if they were, if weed was being talked about, it was being talked about how bad it was and nothing about what it could be as a plant medicine.

Curt: Gotcha. And when High Times went down a road of a crowdfunding kind of public offering for about two years now with the goal to get on NASDAQ, a funding came in short twice and now you're pivoting. I've explained kind of the move to go more into retail and licensing and dispensaries.

Stormy Simon: Yeah, we're continuing with the Reg A and has been a tough environment, and one thing I will say is a lot's happened in the last couple of years with cannabis companies that have gone public and it's been very volatile and it's difficult, or the challenges that High Time says met, throughout the process there has been, there was a silver lining that's part of it. The fact that we, that bubble that burst all of the money coming into cannabis and kind of bursting now, similar to the.com boom, it's a little bit settled, market settled. I think it's a safer market to participate in today than it, than it used to be actually. And then what was your second part of that question.

Curt: I was curious as when it was first presented to the investors on the public side, it was going to be a media company trying to get on NASDAQ and now it's touching the flower, which is pretty much, I'm guessing you're not going NASDAQ, you're going to go OTC. Is that correct so far?

Stormy Simon: Yes.

Curt: At least on the beginning side will investors who kind of got presented this first version A have a chance to redeem or get a refund if they don't want to touch the flower if they're in a non legal state or what will the process be like if people don't want to go this direction with you that put money up?

Stormy Simon: Well, touching the flower can be as far as having our own grow or our own flower, I'm not sure if that's what you mean or simply gathering people's brands and selling them through a dispensary. Currently the retail store makeup could be operating stores that are now standalone that can grab a bigger punch with a High Times brand on their door. Could be franchise type partnerships or eventually having our own property and, and at that point ourselves touching the plant personally touching the plant as a company. Now what we say to the Reg A, you know our former investors, I've got to tell ya, I'm so new at the job that I'm not sure it matters to them investing in High Times, as what it has been versus someone that may touch the plant. I'm not sure, but I also wouldn't, I can't even answer that question right now. I have to go back to them dipping the money back. I'm not familiar enough with the process yet for that.

Curt: Okay. Obviously the balance sheet is well known. It has different levels of debt being reported anywhere from north of 100 million, which is being disputed by you guys all the way down to 30 million. What's the vision to make this entity profitable? What is your, we have to get more money coming in that's going out. Is it the events and the dispensaries or the licensing or kind of give me that vision where high times is going to turn a profit.

Stormy Simon: Yeah. As far as the debt, I don't think we're alone in that, in this cannabis industry right now. And I think you need to read a little deeper, deeper in the financials and how that debt converts is once we start trading. But with that said, High Times itself as an entity, a brand, the publication that it's been, has a great and loyal following and it's so crazy. Everyone I meet, not every single person, but I'll meet someone and they'll say, Oh my gosh, I remember running to the store to look at the High Times magazine and always pick it up. Those are people that have been curious their whole life. So taking all of that passion, it's global and bringing it into a hands-on experience. We've been a content pusher, we've pushed out editorials. We were pushing out editorials from the black market during the black market days. And so that's a transition for us. Starting as a media company, publishing company, media company, moving into events, starting to bring people together, awarding cannabis cup winners and now the legal market. What are we 11 States now with recreation?

Stormy Simon: Being able to open the stores and now interact with them, at a different level. I think that's a huge path or the beginning or steps to profitability. Now my background with Overstock and digital marketing and everything that goes with that, and growing up the days that those evolved, being a CMO when Facebook came out in those types of hurdles and challenges that you overcome and then adopt to, those are all still big opportunities within High Times. We have an amazing digital market and presence and interactions with tons of fans that we haven't engaged with on other levels rather than contents. And so I, as we dig into building our brand beyond a publication, beyond a cannabis event, we'll be attacking both the digital market as well as stepping into the retail space.

Curt: Are there plans to start publishing dope and culture again? I think it's been four or five months without a publication. Will those magazines get turned back on?

Stormy Simon: Yeah, we will. Do you know those are free magazines and markets.

Stormy Simon: It would have been great to have your questions. I know you sent me some questions beforehand and then these weren't anywhere near them, and I would've been happy to go back and verify what you said or the reasons you've said. As you know, I just stepped into the job, but what I'd love to do is get your specific questions like that and really give you the answers. I don't feel like it was that fair for you to ask me about something and return to the Reg A, something that would have required research. And of course when you're doing a Reg A, you wouldn't shoot from the hip nor expect someone to, but happy to get you those answers. I just wish that you had, when you took the time to write the soft pitches, would've wrote the hard ones as well.

Curt: Oh, I didn't realize I had asked you a hard question. Is there something you want to negate, that I asked?

Stormy Simon: It's not that it's a hard question, but it does require, when you say is there any, what did I just say, is there any plans to do dope and culture. I'm not sure. I can't verify the past five months on that. I know we just printed, I can't verify that, but I would love to verify that whether it's been five months, I know they did take a pause, I'm not sure what the calendar is. Been on the job for about three weeks.

Curt: That's true. I just curious, I just didn't know if you knew that you'd be publishing, again. Nothing sinister, just wondering is it the plans you were discussing digital and engaging with people with the magazine?

Stormy Simon: I don't think it was sinister, but I do think that the way it was asked was, negative, but I want to answer.

Curt: I'm just curious if you're going to publish again. If not that's fine too, but okay,

Stormy Simon: On the record, we'll take all of that off. On the record, I'll get you the editorial calendar and let you know when they'll be published and in what cities. There are other complications with various magazines. It doesn't make sense to publish them in a city that's not legal. They could be being published in seven cities and not, I don't know the answer, so that's that. That's why, but I did. It's really, I heard a hard question.

Curt: I'll make it more of a off the cup or not hard question. You're going to be entering a space that's going to compete with the likes of planet 13 and med men. If you had your choice or you could go back or you could pick one, would you rather be CEO of High Times or CEO of Med Men right now on the dispensary side,

Stormy Simon: High Times. High Times.

Curt: Branding I assume and the legacy.

Stormy Simon: Yeah. there was a reason I had known the guys from High Times since about 2012 maybe 14 and I met them through my Overstock days at a licensing show and I left the brand, and I stayed in touch with them through different CEOs and managers and I believe in it. I believe in everything that it represented and everything that it can represent. It's the one name in cannabis that hasn't had to spend the additional dollars creating the brand. The brand has been with it and it's, it's synonymous with cannabis.

Curt: And for people that don't know, you're going to start in the High Times dispensary model, whether it's licensing and products. It's LA, Vegas and then I think it's Chicago, Aspen, San Diego. Is that kind of ballpark, right?

Stormy Simon: Yes. I mean those are the markets that we're targeting or perhaps ones I can talk about are Las Vegas and LA and that's where we have our eyes set right now.

Curt: Is there any ballpark on as far as an opening of one? Are we Q one or in a year

Stormy Simon: It'd be more Q two and Q three but this year definitely this year, but Q two Q three

Curt: Okay. If our listeners or readers wanted to participate in the Reg A, how do they do it? Could you explain to them what they can go do?

Stormy Simon: Yeah, it's investor.hightimes.com. You can go on and fill out a form and go through the process and become a shareholder of High Times.

Curt: Is there any limits on restrictions on how much or how little? Just for people that don't know?

Stormy Simon: Yes, there are, and I'm going to look him up so I can be exact because I know what I think, but I also know that I don't want to guess.

Curt: and you guys can go up to 50 million so people can all get on there and buy shares, I'm assuming.

Stormy Simon: Yeah. I'm sorry. I have to put my phone down. Okay. It's hightimesinvestor.com on the other side and it is the minimum investment is $99 I was right. It is.

Curt: And $99 is how many shares?

Stormy Simon: Nine.

Curt: Nine shares. So $11 a share?

Stormy Simon: Yes.

Curt: Gotcha. Now being an industry professional and taking this job, you must have an opinion. Federal legalization, what do you think? What does your gut tell you? What? What are you throwing out there?

Stormy Simon: As a timeline?

Curt: Yes.

Stormy Simon: As controversial as this may be a little, it's too soon. Too soon, in the sense of, I'm not sure what legal federalization means when this really plays out. Sure give the benefits. Let's talk about the benefits. Banking comes easier, hopefully less business hurdles and less taxes on these, state by the state run businesses. So that would be the benefits of federal legalization. Having the government control the plant would be a downside. Having the plant enter a life cycle of billions dollars of research before we can get, keep our hands on it or use it in a certain way would be my fear of federal legalization. So I love at this moment that this is still in the hands of the people and I hope that the States and the leaders of those States that have taken the risks that they took to go this far and take people this far are recognized as leaders of our country and how they want to change a system.

Stormy Simon: Cannabis is becoming, we're having this conversation because of the people, because of the movement that was created on a level the government couldn't control, could no longer control. It's almost like the secret was out. They didn't have any idea, the folks, the federals, those that are the federals, when we go legalization, they weren't fighting for it. They haven't fought for the plant as a medicine for 80 years. They substituted things to us, the voters instead. And now in order for us to have it in the form that we think we should have it or get the scientific research that actually exists in other places in the world as well as our own backyard to get that research recognized, we're looking for their stamp of approval.

Stormy Simon: So, I know that it's a process and that it's something that we all have to do and go through, but that's why I want the States to run faster. I trust them more. I trust what we might be able to get done individually a little bit more. The solutions that are popping up for businesses that have had to work outside of a system are great. And their solutions that work with any system they've just had to pop outside Of our federally regulated world in order to operate because we haven't got the federal government hug yet. So there's very many reasons why it's important that this gets federally recognized. I'm scared of the manner in which they'll conduct themselves once they get their hands on this plant.

Curt: I'm just going to guess with your background at Overstock and your marketing that you're, you would love to be able to cross the state line with THC and ship it with the High Times branding and kind of an Amazon effect is, would that be a goal if there's a de-scheduling or a legalization?

Stormy Simon: Of course. Absolutely. I love doing that. That would be wonderful to work again with USPS or at Overstock, we were the first third billing partner with USPS and that was a big achievement, working with them, UPS, FedEx, the whole supply chain on how we were going to start moving back in the day, millions of packages across the United States. Right. It just wasn't being done back then. To have those same conversations about now putting cannabis in a package, although they don't need to have them, they ship pharmaceuticals to people's homes every day. They ship pain pills to people's homes every day I believe and in that sense the process is already there. We're just looking for the stamp.

Curt: Speaking of the iconic brand and a marketing guy myself, I think one of the ideas is if you could transpose it to a dispensary with supply is have the High Times cup winners products available at certain unlimited quality quantities at each dispensary that you're licensing. So that gives you a market differentiation and say, "Hey, I want to try the best O G Kush from this year's High Times" and they have it, at the Vegas or the LA, things like that you can do to differentiate on the marketing side. I think it would be killer for you guys.

Stormy Simon: Yeah, that's one of the things that we've talked about is putting together a cannabis cups award section, and really displaying how proud not only High Times to recognize the growers in these States for the first time they've been growing in order. Just haven't been able to step out of the closet with it and recognize them with tested products and give them legitimacy has been, we're proud, they're proud and having the stores and highlighting them in the way we could would be the double whammy.

Curt: I think it would be a really, it'd be a nice differentiation to know, "Hey, I could go get this shatter that just won this year as Michigan High Times cup" or whatever it's going to be and that would bring someone over to your dispensary as opposed to someone else. Last question about the iconic brand. Iconic brands haven't sold well as far as products in California because consumers under 40 aren't familiar with the names associated with them. How do you get High Times and the message, like you talked about the history of it and how you grew up, how do you get that to the next generation with so much more digital and content out there, to people under 30 how do you make them, want to be part of High Times and the vision and the iconic value of it.

Stormy Simon: Upon joining I've been really interested in, or it's been eyeopening to see the breakup of our demographic, digitally and who's coming digitally, who's touching us and interacting with us. And surprisingly enough, we are talking to them. We have a large percentage that is exactly the 25 to even, or the 24 to 35 I can hear looked at individually and, and it was a good chunk. So they're already there. The question is, are we talking to them in the way they want to hear us or are we engaging them in a continued way and all kinds of questions after that. But they definitely are engaging with the brand.

Curt: That's excellent. Excellent. I think that's going to be one of those competitive markets, if the price of flower continues to come down as more States legalize, not even to mention the black market, the gray market, how does a High Times or even amendment or a planet 13 differentiate their product and have people associated with like in like a brand like Apple or Nike. You guys certainly have the historical advantage of High Times cup. You know, winners of,

Stormy Simon: Sorry about that.

Curt: Oh, I thought I lost it. That's okay. Anyway, thank you for your time. I don't want to take it all up. I appreciate you talking to the viewers at cannabis.net and I wish you all the success in the world going forward with your High Times, with your Reg A, listeners and viewers can check it out and also eventually on the OTC, I guess when we get there.

Stormy Simon: Thank you so much.

Curt: All right. Thank you, Stormy.

UPDATE 5/5/20

It appears that Stormy Simon is out as CEO, as first reported by LA Cannabis News and now confirmed by the NY Post, Stormy is out after only a few weeks on the job. Stormy Simon is a very nice person and we hope she does well as a Utah state rep, but we hate to say we told you so and saw it coming from our interview above.