On today's Weed Talk NOW Jimmy Young from Pro Cannabis Media and Curt Dalton from Cannabis.net discuss 10 topics in 10 minutes including the Hight Times IPO push, does THC help or hurt the COVID-19 virus, the NY resident witch hunt, and whether recreational cannabis should be considered an "essential item" in Massachusetts.
Jimmy Young:
Hi everyone. Welcome to another very special edition of Weed Talk Now. I'm Jimmy Young the founder of Pro Cannabis Media.
Curt Dalton:
I'm Curt Dalton, the founder of Cannabis.Net.
Jimmy Young:
Joining us also on this very special edition of Weed Talk Now is Stu Zakim from New York, New York, actually New Jersey, New York, via Boston. Stuart, first of all, it's good to see you and thank you so much for joining us.
Stewart:
Thanks for having me Jimmy and I hope everyone up there is doing well.
Jimmy Young:
Yeah, well we're most concerned about what's going on in New York City right now with the coronavirus. Can you give us an update on, first of all, when did you leave the city?
Stewart:
The last time I went was for the Allman Brothers 50th Anniversary Concert at the Madison Square Garden, which I believe is three weeks ago today and have not been back since.
Jimmy Young:
There you go. Well, obviously my ticket got lost in the mail. They're my favorite band and that being said. Everyone obviously is very concerned about what is going on in New York City. Can you give us kind of an update on what's it like? I mean obviously now you're just looking at it on television to see what it's like on the streets in New York.
Stewart:
Yeah, but I have enough friends who live there and it's isolating like it is here. They really can't go out. Some people were doing it a responsibly going to Central Park and hanging out and stuff, which just unbelievable these days. Luckily in New York, even though cannabis is still not legal, there are some underground delivery services who are doing a booming business. So one of the uptakes to people being home all the time is they do need to entertain themselves in a very productive way and what better way there is in cannabis.
Jimmy Young:
There you go. Curt, I know you would have something for Stuart.
Curt Dalton:
Yes. Right now it seems like people from New York, or at least people with a New York license plate are being demonized and witch hunted around the country looking at license plates, banging on doors. As a New Yorker who left three weeks ago, what's your feeling on that as far as people checking and trying to stop New Yorkers from [inaudible 00:02:14] getting in houses?
Stewart:
I think it's ridiculous to be honest with you. It's fear, it's insanity, but that's what we're living in because we have a chief executive of the country rather who does not give consistent messaging to people and knows how to a steer fear up and that's how it does it. While those New Yorkers, dah, dah, dah. And he always loves to trash in New York because he has a fight with Cuomo. So this is not about politics, this is about being nice to people and understanding that we're all in this together. And when you start isolating or identifying groups that you don't want to allow, it may start with New Yorkers and may escalate to a lot of other things that we don't even want to think about.
Jimmy Young:
Well, Stuart being the one in New York in that area that I care really the most about except for family members of course, who actually live there, we hope that you are safe, you continue to wave the flag, the pro cannabis flag and we will be back in touch with you as the weeks go on because let's just hope that we are all here to talk about this and live to tell the story in about a month or two.
Stewart:
Thank you guys. I appreciate it.
Jimmy Young:
All right Stuart, and I got you off in time for your call. There you go.
Stewart:
I appreciate that too. Take care.
Jimmy Young:
Take care now.
Stewart:
Bye-bye.
Jimmy Young:
That's Stu Zakim checking in from Bridge Strategic down in New York City. For those of you who might recognize his last name of Zakim, yes, he is Lenny Zakim's brother, the late Lenny Zakim of course, a great leader for the Anti-Defamation League for many years in New England. They named the bridge, this beautiful, beautiful bridge in Boston after him for all the efforts that he did about bridging communities and bridging differences. And my goodness gracious Curt, don't we need that now? Huh?
Curt Dalton:
He's right about the kind of a witch hunt and whether Trump's policies are anti New York. It does seem a little bit fanatical depending on how this virus goes in the next 30 days to be again searching out New York license plates, stopping people at State lines. If a New Yorker had rented a home or a lot of them have second homes right in Connecticut, Florida, Maine, New Hampshire, where people are, I don't know if you saw the story in Maine, they cut down a tree and came out with arms, with handguns and forces a quarantine of a, hey, I'm just going to go to my second home and hang out there and hide. Well they know you're coming. so it does seem like you hope it doesn't get into a frenzy like he hinted at in the future, because if it's New York now, what is the group we go after in 30 days if we're in dire straits. And he's right, you go down this slippery slope, it gets ugly.
Jimmy Young:
Yeah. Well we've been on that slope for a couple of years now. One of the things that Stuart mentioned of course is New York and the governor, Andrew Cuomo. And interestingly enough, a news item that happened just a few minutes ago actually is that the New York state has left off $34.31 million in a budget item that was being put aside to manage legalization of cannabis in the State of New York. So now that a particular initiative, you have to start over. And again, we're in a very, very difficult time for everyone. And imagine, I guess, having to decide what stays in a budget and what doesn't considering we're in an emergency situation right now. So I don't think it's dead in New York City, in New York State, but it is definitely not in the budget.
Curt Dalton:
Yeah. And as you said, it's the order of priorities right now. Anything that can help fight this COVID-19 virus is going to get a priority. Cannabis fans would argue that cannabis can help in the fight against the virus, so it should be in there. But if you're talking about the dicing up a budget and X amount is going to go to masks and X amount is going to go to ventilators, it's kind of hard to say we need X amount for cannabis set up of legalization. But the good news is as a recovery for job growth as well as medical purposes, cannabis could see a big part in the federal and state programs. So I wouldn't give up hope. But if you have to order stuff, literally like a triage unit, who survives and who doesn't, you have to put anything COVID first.
Jimmy Young:
And of course, that kind of lends us to our next topic as we try to break in 10 topics in 10 minutes and we've already probably gone over our one minute. But that's going to be typical, because there's so many things to talk about. But in this particular case I definitely want to ask you about an article or a posting that you had. This is a horrible time for people to actually have this virus, having to go to a hospital and recognizing that, oh my God, this may be the last time I have an opportunity to either see my loved ones or even talk to them. That's another one of those decisions that's going to be made on a regular basis as New York and other metropolitan areas hit this peak.
Curt Dalton:
Yeah. If you were interested in this kind of stuff, there's an article today in the Boston Globe under the paid section written by the doctors and nurses union of Massachusetts. So for those around the country, we're looking at a peak in maybe two weeks we hope. And they said there's going to be difficult choices made. And one element that came up was we have a vision that we're going to slowly get sick, be able to talk to our wife or husbands or grandparents and our kids and then get in the ambulance. And that's terrible enough. But there is a friend about my age as well in my town that called the ambulance. His wife was out, went to the hospital and basically they put a phone to his ear and said you have 120 seconds. And we hope he gets through it and he should. He's a healthy mid-forties male.
Curt Dalton:
But you never know. So the moment that, that post became important to me was the idea that, well maybe we all won't get that buildup, that day or two to talk to people. And if it does come to a point where someone, a nurse with a glove on, puts a phone to your ear and says, you have to talk to your wife and kids, you got 120 seconds, go while I get you ready for intubation or a ventilator. We just try to encourage people as gruesome and as heartbreaking as that is, to be ready, be ready for that talk.
Jimmy Young:
Absolutely. And stay away from each other and social isolate and all that neat stuff. Another thing that those medical personnel are going to have to make these decisions is a triage decision. Who do they help when someone comes in with symptoms. And those are decisions, I'm sure that they probably have maybe one class on in medical school, but this is real life. And it's going to change America. It already has. It already has.
Curt Dalton:
Yeah. I think the article in the Globe mentioned Italy as a reference, where if there's only so many ventilators and there's an 80 year old person that has a lung disease and a 29 year old man or woman come in, they're going to send the 80 year old person home. And that could be your grandparent, your uncle, and it is what it is and you need to kind of prepare for this, which is just a devastating thing in its own right.
Jimmy Young:
It is life as we know it in 2020 in the world. Not just here in the United States.
Curt Dalton:
Sure.
Jimmy Young:
All right. The next thing on my list here is one of our favorite brands to talk about, the oldest brand when it comes to cannabis. That would be the old High Times Magazines that is preparing for an IPO in this economy with this kind of a stock market. Does this make any sense to you at all Curt?
Curt Dalton:
In a regular version of life? No. You would never do an IPO right now. There's scarcity of funds. People are scared. Anytime you have kind of what's called an Alt investment like cannabis, crypto, Bitcoin, that kind of thing. Those are the first things to get shelf because they're not liquid and they're kind of your play money. That's what you're trying to hit home runs with. So I have a feeling High Times doesn't have a choice economically. They have to push forward with this IPO. I believe they're cutting their crowdfunding opportunity off tonight at midnight or tomorrow. They did announce that they picked up Humboldt brands or brand that goes basically seed to sale. It's going to give them the ability to stock their own dispensaries, at least in California with their products. So to get store credit, they're going into retail. At least you can sell something. At least you can actually create revenue daily by selling a product. You can charge, whether it's a credit card or a debit card. And of course with the High Times cannabis comes all in question now for at least a year. We're not going to be bringing 5,000 people together anywhere. It's at least a move to get some stability. In your financials.
Jimmy Young:
Yeah, and I think in that conversation, in that little sound bite, you gave Stormy Simon, their CEO, a little credit because I think at this point she's actually identified the one place where they need to push their effort, which is controlling that whole seed to sale cycle that all the financial analysts are saying this is the most guaranteed success you can have in the cannabis business, is to control that whole thing. So did I hear you give her some credit?
Curt Dalton:
Oh yeah, no, I'm a fan of Stormy. I mean our interview, maybe was a little rocky and I asked some questions that she didn't have knowledge of, but I have against Stormy. I hope she does a great job and hopefully her expertise coming from Overstock.com is when that federal law changes, she can take those retail brands in California or Nevada where they're going to set up first and get them shipped, kind of set up an overstock, set up warehouses, get a supply chain. Obviously with warehouse workers right now that's not a good area. But again, down the road you can see what they're setting up.
Jimmy Young:
Okay, so the next thing on the list here is essential services. In Massachusetts where we originate this program from, there's already been a lot of controversy with the governor, Charlie Baker, shutting down the adult use recreational facilities around the State of Massachusetts, including the first inner city dispensary, Pure Oasis. And sure enough, a lot of people are coming to the defense of Kobie Evans and his staff there, at Pure Oasis, including myself. I published a blog. You and I talked about that. They're now reaching out to the governor. I actually sent my blog to the governor. I have no idea if he read it, but I don't care. At least it makes me feel better that the guy that I actually was pissed off at is going to read why I'm pissed off. Not that it's any secrets, that I just think that it is essential because you have a demand for it in the same kind of demand that you have in liquor stores.
Jimmy Young:
Now, of course there's a ton more liquor stores. And I get the public gathering that it was going to be so, you notice that the minute is always on me, right? It was going to be so essential that everybody needed to get some liquor. They needed to get some weed and unfortunately they also had to get some guns, which is probably what happened up in Maine. But I know you have some opinions about this as well as is cannabis an essential product in a modern society where it is already a legal entity in a State.
Curt Dalton:
Yeah. So it's not so much, is it essential? Is it medically essential or recreational essential and that's where the States have differed. Massachusetts claiming medical is essential. If they're open, you can sell, but if you're selling rec, you need to stop. And if you're only a rec shop, you cannot be open. And I feel for Kobie, having worked so hard in the years in the business. You get open for what? Maybe two weeks and then this happens. Again, I think it comes down to more that there's not a 200 person line at a liquor store like there are in rec dispensaries here in Mass. Did Governor Baker drag his feet and not get enough dispensaries open in the last two to three years? Absolutely. But we're living in the moment. We have to deal with a virus that's killing people. It would be nice to see a compromise here, maybe pickup only, like all these restaurants. Five guys. They're doing an order online. You wait in your car, someone can put it on your hood, whatever the system is.
Curt Dalton:
I think there's a compromise there where, look, we can't have people in the shop. We can't have 200 people shoulder to shoulder outside waiting. They have menu management. We have time slots, set software they already have. I think we could do X amount of orders outside. Waive the delivery for rec. Institute full delivery right now and I think it should be, to answer your question, yes. For people, if they can deal with stress and anxiety and the things in their lives, and this is a plant, absolutely it is essential. But if someone would rather choose to have an edible or a tincture or even smoke a joint as opposed to having a Budweiser or two glasses of wine, it absolutely is better and healthier for you. But there just has to be a compromise around the delivery mechanism to your clients. You can't have the crowds.
Jimmy Young:
Compromise and moderation. That's the key for everything in life, including our-
Curt Dalton:
Yeah, exactly.
Jimmy Young:
How's that working out so far? All right. Another item, wait, I'm going to put us on the clock for a minute here. Another item that came across the news wire as they say, basically email newsletters, is the State of Oklahoma, we've talked about this a little bit on Weed Talk Live, our monthly little podcast that we do Curt. But Oklahoma has now thousands of dispensaries open. And another little caveat here is because they want to try and get this legalization on the ballot in November, they need to go door to door and get signatures. That's not going to happen in the pandemic, is it?
Curt Dalton:
Probably not. But the way Oklahoma set up their licensing, it was really just walk in with a piece of paper and your application fee and they stamped it, you're good to go. You talking about the juxtaposition to somewhere like New York or Massachusetts, is unbelievable. So I don't know if the pressing need is there because there's so much supply. I think there's two or 3000 dispensary's approved, let alone growers and distribution. You'll get it as Stu was saying earlier if you need to right now for this time period. But in the long run, of course, they're going to have to get their rec official and things in order. But if they see that plenty of supply, you know where to look.
Jimmy Young:
All right. And I've got one more thing to talk about and you kind of touched on it earlier in our conversation. There's so many different reports out there. There's so much research being done on this plant and the variety of cannabinoids that make up the cannabis sativa plant. Is it good for you? Is it not good for you? Should we be smoking? It's a lung disease that's out there. I'm totally conflicted about everything. I have no idea who to believe. And you tell me what you think. Is THC and CBD combo the way to go on this? Is it all CBD? You tell me.
Curt Dalton:
So the reason we're in this predicament, not only is the virus, federally, we don't allow enough research to know these answers ahead of time. So the general argument is a cannabis will help you fight. And in no way is it a cure or no way is it a vaccine or COVID-19 because CBD is good for your endoccanabinoid system. CBD boosts your immune system. Early studies show THC had a very good antiviral effect. That's the good news. More studies are coming out with mice and influenza saying THC inhibits, increases the viral load. So it suppresses the immune system. So now we're in this position as well. Does CBD help you and does THC hurt you? So should you go all CBD? Again, no one knows the real answer because we don't have enough research and we haven't been able to do research. But for what people are using the cannabis plant during this pandemic, it seems whether it helps or hurts on the viral level, it certainly helps on the cerebral level, the stress level, the perceived pain management. People feel better using it, whether they have the virus or they're stressed. So it appears to be working well. But again, we don't know on the actual viral molecule protein level if CBD is helping THC, vice-versa. We need more tests, but people are using it. The demand is there.
Jimmy Young:
And it's a plant. And it's a plant. It's a natural plant. It's been here way before big pharma was here. Okay. And it's been used thousands of years medicinally. It's just crazy that we continue to have to talk about a lot of the same issues over and over again. Research studies and they're doing the same thing now in a pandemic situation and they are moving the needle much faster, obviously because lives are at stake here. We both get that and that's another reason why we would like to see more access and more research and more education. It's one of the reasons why I enjoy talking with Curt Dalton from Cannabis.Net because he definitely knows a lot more about this stuff than I do. And I appreciate you taking the time today as usual, Curt. And hopefully we'll do this again later this week as we continue to talk weed now. Last thoughts, Curt?
Curt Dalton:
Stay safe. Take it seriously. This virus is a big unknown. It is not just an old person virus. It is not just a, you have diabetes or a heart issue. All know the numbers aren't, percentage wise huge, there are children dying. There are healthy individuals dying. You don't know what other conditions you have yet. If you're in your twenties, thirties or forties you may not find out you had a condition until you're in your 50s. So just stay home. Just stay home. Let people do their job. Let the health workers work and we'll get through this. But just everybody's got to play by the same rules or it doesn't work.
Jimmy Young:
There you go. He's Curt Dalton from Cannabis.Net. I'm Jimmy Young from Pro Cannabis Media. Remember, it's a whole new world of weed out there. Use it responsibly and in moderation. For Curt Dalton, I'm Jimmy Young. See you next time on Weed Talk Now.
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