We are very excited at Cannabis.net to have sat down with Samantha Miller, the chief science officer at HMBLDT, a revolutionary new disposable vape pen that gives you not only the exact dosage at every use, but also has specialized formulas for different moods and effects. Take a listen as Samantha tells us about HMBLDT and all their cool features...
00:07 Samantha Miller: Hey, Curt.
00:08 Curt: Hi, Sam, how are you doing? Can I call you Sam?
00:10 SM: Yeah, absolutely.
00:11 Curt: All right. Let me get set up here. Welcome to the phone call and welcome to cannabis.net. Interviewing hmbldt, a very famous name in this little niche.
00:22 SM: Yes. Well, thank you for having me.
00:24 Curt: Well, for the listeners and people reading down the road that will read this interview, tell me a little bit about hmbldt and how you got started and what problem are you solving as a startup?
00:40 SM: Sure. Yeah. Hmbldt is a really exciting new company in the cannabis space. It's looking to kind of remove the barriers that exist in parts of our society around cannabis use. You know, cannabis can be an amazing solution for people to help support their wellness. It's one of the only non-toxic, beneficial things that you can use to help you sleep, to help with your pain, that doesn't have a whole lot of side effects preventing you from enjoying the rest of your life. And so hmbldt was founded hoping to break down the barriers around cannabis, but also to provide really amazing solutions to help people support their wellness with cannabis. So we've created these targeted formulations with precise dosage control to allow people to have the experience that they want, or gain the amount of pain relief they want, or sleep aid that they need, and be able to repeat that experience every time based upon our consistent formulas and the dosage capability of our device.
01:45 Curt: Yeah, we have your product on screen and there are five beautiful looking, almost vape pens, something Apple might come out with. There's Bliss, Sleep, Calm, Relief... I'm sorry, there's four. Sorry about that. Curious as to... We got to this situation in the niche, you know, for 20 years there was smoking cannabis. And then edibles showed up and everybody said, "Wow, this is great. It's less conspicuous and it doesn't leave a lot of residue. It's healthier." And we hit this wall of, "Oh, there's a problem with edibles because the dosages are off." So right now, as we come across the US in states that aren't as familiar, let's say, as California, with this problem, people may not know the dose you'll get from an edible, whether it be a chocolate bar, or a gummy bear, or a juice, or anything could be drastically different between the same product or actually within the same product. So a piece of chocolate on one end of the bar may have a totally different effect at the other end because of the dosages. So hmbldt comes in, has a very beautiful-looking product that's compact, small, easily almost the size, I would say, of a... Maybe a little bit bigger than a lipstick case. And you're really solving the exact dosage. So someone's going to get the exact same. Could you tell us a little bit about how your system does the exact dosage each time?
03:12 SM: Sure. Absolutely. And you're absolutely right about edibles, Curt. There can be so much variability around them. You know, for the manufacturers who are trying their best, and who do make a consistent product, if the patient then takes it and [03:25] ____ 'cause it's going through their metabolism and being converted by their liver, they can end up having a completely different experience based on just the state of their own body. And so that's what's awesome about using a vapor device to do this delivery of a dosage-controlled amount of a cannabis formulation, is that it's entering your body directly through inhalation, not going through your liver, not going through second pass metabolism and all the complications around that. Being able to have a solution like the hmbldt dose pen, that delivers 2.25 mg over a three-second dose, is really an amazing advancement, and being able to have that repeatable experience. The way the dose pen does it is it has a really high tech element and wicking system to our element that delivers exactly that 2.25 mg of formula every time. And what's really cool about it is the device is... It's especially intuitive. There's no buttons or anything to push. You just start inhaling. That begins the delivery of the 2.25 mg. At the end of the three seconds, when the dose has been delivered, you get a little vibration at your mouth, at the tip of the device, so that you know that the dose has been delivered.
04:52 SM: To get your second dose, you'll then start a second inhalation. That way, you're really able to carefully meter exactly how much you need. What we're finding with our Sleep formula, for example, is a lot of people only need one dose. So they'll take that one dose, 2.25 mg, and have a great night of restful sleep. And with 200 doses or more per pen, yeah, that's 200 nights of sleep for someone. Which is really a great solution, again, for people who are looking to support their wellness and well-being with a great non-toxic alternative to a lot of pharmaceuticals.
05:26 Curt: You just led me right into that next question beautifully. 200... 2.5 mg per dose, so if someone was using this Sleep, obviously, and they used it once, that would be 200 days. What is the average are you hearing, lifespan of one cartridge? The cartridges I assume are replaceable?
05:45 SM: In our current release of the product line, it is a disposable vapor pen. We are coming out with a rechargeable as well. So in the case of this one, when the consumer is done with it, we are actually asking them to take it back to their dispensary and recycle it, as the entire device is recyclable.
06:04 Curt: All right, so then what would you guess is the average lifespan? I understand if they did one at 2.5 a day, that's 200 days. What are you hearing or what's kinda been the average customer life for one pen?
06:17 SM: Sure. It depends a little bit on the formula, because they have kinda different modes of usage. I would say with the Bliss Pen, which is something that people are using for euphoria, maybe a little something that they're a little more likely to share than, say, their Sleep Pen. We've definitely seen a month of usage for most users out of say the Bliss Pen. The Sleep Pen, if your a one dose user, 200 nights of sleep. And it usually is about one to three doses for those Sleep formula. And so you'll get an average of say, 70 to 200 days of sleep from that. So depending a little bit on the formula and the mode of usage around that formula. For the Relief formula, we're hearing feedback of, again, one to three doses a couple times a day is able to control people's pain and help keep them performing at their peak with our CBD attenuated formulas.
07:13 Curt: And I'm just guess Bliss is your best seller so far. [laughter]
07:19 SM: And you know, it's interesting, it's a little bit different by region, but Bliss does seem to be one of the winners. And they're all quite popular. If I had to choice a number two, it might be our Calm formula. Which is our CBD formula that has a 15 to one ratio of CBD to THC.
07:34 Curt: And what's the ratio on the Sleep formula then? If that's 15 to one for Calm, what do you do for Sleep?
07:39 SM: So for the Sleep formula, it's a THC forward formula, so it's a one to eight CBD to THC ratio, so eight times the amount of THC as compared to CBD.
07:50 Curt: Oh, in the Sleep one, okay. And what would someone... Obviously in California is where you're based, what do they retail for? Roughly what's the ballpark?
08:02 SM: The retail for the hmbldt dose pen is $100.
08:05 Curt: Okay. And that would last anywhere from a month or two depending on condition/usage...
08:11 SM: Several months.
08:12 Curt: Yeah, sharing as we said. [laughter] That's with the concert season or the rain season, I guess, so that's fantastic. What are the plans going forward? As dosages... And if the Federal Law changes the air with President Hillary, we hope, in the first year or two. And dosages and testing are gonna be the forefront, so then again there... I compare it to the McDonald's, they want a Big Mac to taste the same in Moscow as it does in Miami. You guys are certainly ahead of the curve on, I need the exact dose every time as we discussed in edibles. How does hmbldt kinda go forward in the next 24 months? When all we're gonna be hearing on the medical side is exact dosages whether it's pill or vape. Kinda what's in store for you guys, do you see in the next year or two? To expand and kinda take advantage of that dosage correctness, but also maybe dosage fear out there in the medical community?
09:05 SM: Yeah, I think there's a few different aspects to that. There's a lot of exciting new things coming from hmbldt. Of course we have our dose pen line and we have some additional exciting formulas that will be coming out in a dose pen line. I think one of the things that's important to understand about our formulas, especially with respect to making people feel comfortable around using them, is we did design them in a CBD attenuated way. So there's a lot more CBD in our formulas as compared to, say, the normal ratio of THC to CBD that you would see in a flower. So because of that the experience from an intoxication perspective is more controlled. The CBD has a attenuating effect for some of those feelings of intoxication from THC. So that can be something that helps people like, maybe a soccer mom who's trying to stop using Ambien and wants to try our Sleep formula, her feeling comfortable for using cannabis for the first time.
10:03 SM: And also knowing that the experience based on dosage can be controlled as well as repeated, so that she knows exactly how much she's getting, it's more a defined experience. So that's really important to us. And I think you'll see a lot of really innovative delivery systems from us. You'll see a lot of technology innovation, as well as innovation on the formula side, with things like oil sprays, in addition to our rechargeable devices. And there's numerous other delivery methods for cannabinoids that people are looking at that we're certainly exploring, but I think are more popular and also more accessible for people who, say, are suffering from particular ailments, and particular modes of ingestion, whether inhalation is difficult because they have maybe a lung capacity issue or suffer from something like COPD or asthma, or whether oral ingestion isn't right for them for a variety of reasons. There are things like suppositories and other really innovative delivery systems that we'll be exploring to help delay dose controls, cannabis formulas to people in the way that's most suitable for them and most comfortable for them to try.
11:14 Curt: So if I'm listening right now, I assume I need a medical card out of the state of California to go right now to buy this at a California dispensary, is that correct?
11:24 SM: That's right. Our launch is happening in California right now. It's a really exciting time. So if you are interesting in picking one up, yes, you will need your recommendation and a valid California ID. And we've got a great group of dispensaries, both Northern California and Southern California where you can find the product, those are listed on our website. And we would love for people come in and try it and give us their feedback, on our Instagram page or through our website. We really love to hear from the consumer and about their experience as well.
11:54 Curt: If California approves the recreational vote in a few weeks here, will this be allowed under recreational? Or do we know yet?
12:03 SM: I don't think that's clear yet, Curt. It would be allowed absolutely, I haven't seen anything in the law that would say it was disallowed. I think my understanding if that proposition passes in California, it only broadens the people who the hmbldt dose pens would be available to, I think that would be a fantastic thing. I'm really excited about the level of engagement that we had during our consumer testing. You know, for me in doing product development, the most exciting part of the whole process for me is kind of near the end, when I put it into someone's hands during consumer testing and I see their response, and they take that first dose and their eyes light up as that tip vibrates and kind of the surprise of that experience, and the surprise is such a positive experience around experiencing the formulas.
12:57 SM: So for me, it's been awesome hearing all of the feedback from everybody in terms of how it's helping them, from assistance with their fibromyalgia to getting them off Ambien for their Sleep. So it's just been a wonderful product line to be associated with, and really exciting to experience the launch here in California and the acceptance from the consumers. And it's gonna be tough to keep this on the shelf, I think, Curt. It's got such great velocity in the market right now.
13:26 Curt: Well, I think you're right. It's kind of that missing element from the smoking, then the edibles happened, and vape happened along the way, but now the dosages it is so important. It's gonna need to be correct for legitimacy to go from the back corner of the room to the front of the room. So I think if we can get it rescheduled to a Schedule 2 drug, that would allow for interstate commerce, and with your high CBD ratios, I'm sure many of our listeners and readers would wanna try this, and they know it has to come to the Midwest and East Coast as well and to other states. And once we can allow the interstate commerce, I'm sure your brand will do it very well 'cause, again, it looks like for those that aren't watching it it's a, well, we'll have pictures up, it looks like something you get at the Apple Store, very discreet, it's small, it's [14:20] ____ rated. It looks a lipstick case so...
14:24 SM: It's a beautiful device, Curt, and you know, our plan is to have it available at other states, so we'll be seeking out and establishing ourselves as a manufacturer in other states as quickly as possible so that we can make this solution available to as many users as we can. I'm a firm believer that it's offering clear benefits with our targeted formulas and the precise dosage, and the beautiful and thoughtful device that we've developed that is made to be a medical device, made from medical grade plastics and has a beautiful environmental story around it too. Which is really important both for me as a product development person and also for hmbldt as a team. The last thing that we wanna do is fill up landfills with these things, and we're really pleased at the level of recyclability that we've been able to achieve.
15:15 Curt: And what's your favorite? Relief, Calm, Sleep, or Bliss? What do you go to? What's in the purse?
15:21 SM: Well, I'll tell you my first, Curt, is probably the Bliss formula. I really enjoy that formula, it's got a wonderful flavor, which is one of the things we spent a lot of time on was making sure we had wonderful terpene profiles that supported great effects and targeted effects of our formulas, as well as providing a great user experience in terms of flavor and palatability.
15:43 Curt: All right, so you are a scientist, product developer, do you live in hmbldt or did you grow up there? I don't see that.
15:51 SM: I grew up in Northern California. I'm actually currently settled in Sonoma County.
15:55 Curt: All right. So I'd be crazy not to ask, and I usually ask this of all the people that I interview: What are your favorite two strains? You're on an island, you can only take two with you. What are the two strains that Samantha Miller brings to the deserted island for the rest of her life and why?
16:11 SM: Well, it's probably an easy answer. As a cannabis user, I've always been oriented around flavor profiles. That's kinda part of the aspect of my enjoyment of my personal use. So number one would be Girl Scout Cookies Blue Cut. It's a specific phenotype that's available at some shops here in Northern California. And then I would say my second, maybe it's a tie for second, so there might be three strains. It would be between Cherry AK and Gorilla Glue Number Four.
16:47 Curt: Wow, I have had Gorilla Glue. I have not tried the other two, but hopefully I'll get out there in Northern California shortly.
16:55 Curt: Well, that's a great tip for some of our users too who are in Northern... Not only in California, to try our product, but the strains of a professional sommelier scientist of cannabis has just laid out her three favorite strains. So that might be something to check out too for people that at least can get access to it like you said in Northern California.
17:14 SM: Absolutely, you can find the Blue Cut at Airfield Supply Company, and you can find a great Cherry AK over at Spark. And you can actually find the hmbldt dose pen at both of those places as well.
17:26 Curt: What a coincidence, fantastic adventure. Samantha, I appreciate your time. This has been a great talk about the hmbldt pens: Bliss, Sleep, Calm, and Relief, something for everyone. And I hope we can see you guys growing. And hopefully we have the vote and the laws go our way in a few weeks and we'll be seeing your products everywhere, all over the country, the world.
17:48 SM: It's fantastic, we're excited. Thank you so much for having me this morning, and we're looking forward to getting hmbldt dose pens in as many hands as possible and just hearing all the great feedback and experiences that people have to share with us, so we're excited about being able to offer these targeted formulas with precise dosage to patients who are looking for that entry point into the cannabis space and a product that they can feel comfortable and confident with in using to support their overall wellness.
18:17 Curt: Excellent, thank you very much for your time.
18:19 SM: Thank you so much.
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